From edward at paleo.org Wed Sep 1 23:17:48 2010 From: edward at paleo.org (Edward Reid) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 23:17:48 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] How to enter a stock dividend? In-Reply-To: References: <20100816225351.6863533d@liberty.rlwhome.lan> <4C7D9213.6040109@mindspring.com> <8486CDB7-FE8C-4E39-A597-AC850F6AE084@gmail.com> <718220.53455.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org> At 8/31/2010 10:19 PM -0500, Gordon Alley wrote: >You receive additional shares of stock, not cash. Gordon is exactly correct. Here's a fuller explanation: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stockdividend.asp Legally and financially, a stock dividend is identical to a stock split. For example, a stock dividend of 0.05 shares for each share held is the same as a 21:20 split, and will cause an automatic price drop of 1/21 (about 4.76%). http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/stockdividendvsstocksplit.asp Outfits which do long-term tracking of stock prices adjust past prices for splits so that prices are comparable over time. They treat stock dividends exactly the same as splits. (This I learned from my small amount of experience doing programming inside this world.) So why even do a stock dividend? The article at http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/stockcashdividend.asp tries to put a positive face on stock dividends. But in fact a stock dividend is a big zero. The corporation distributes no cash. The value of your share holding is exactly the same after the stock dividend as before. Sometimes a corporation *should* hold onto its cash and not pay a dividend, so there's nothing sinister about not paying a cash dividend. A stock dividend is just a way to tell shareholders "hey, we paid a dividend" even though the dividend isn't worth a cent. It's a psychological dividend. Stock splits also do not change the value of your share holding, but the justification for splits is to avoid very high prices for single shares. Whether that's useful in the modern world is debatable (Warren Buffett famously thinks not, which is why BRKA is trading at $120,000, although he has relented to the extent of issuing BRKB), but at least it's a reason. So the way to handle the stock dividend is to enter it as a stock split on the securities detail view. I could not find any news about an Apple stock dividend, so I assume that was just used as an example, and so I can't say what the split factor is for the OP's stock. However, the split factor will be one plus the stock dividend proportion, as above. Edward From gordon at gordonalley.com Wed Sep 1 23:56:31 2010 From: gordon at gordonalley.com (Gordon Alley) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 22:56:31 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] How to enter a stock dividend? In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org> References: <20100816225351.6863533d@liberty.rlwhome.lan> <4C7D9213.6040109@mindspring.com> <8486CDB7-FE8C-4E39-A597-AC850F6AE084@gmail.com> <718220.53455.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org> Message-ID: A split is often issued when a company's stock price has increased dramatically, making it a less-attractive buy for small-to-medium investors (Warren Buffet's BRKA is an extreme example). That's why a stock split is usually taken as a sign that the issuing company is doing well (a reverse-split is another story). I generally try to maintain the same dollar amount for each security I invest in. If that amount is, for example, $1000, and a stock lists for $750 per share, I would end up either $250 low or $500 high, if I bought 1 or 2 shares, respectively. I prefer stocks priced under $100, which allows me to adjust my investment to within about $50 of my target. -Gordon On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Edward Reid wrote: > At 8/31/2010 10:19 PM -0500, Gordon Alley wrote: > >> You receive additional shares of stock, not cash. >> > > Gordon is exactly correct. Here's a fuller explanation: > > http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stockdividend.asp > > Legally and financially, a stock dividend is identical to a stock split. > For example, a stock dividend of 0.05 shares for each share held is the same > as a 21:20 split, and will cause an automatic price drop of 1/21 (about > 4.76%). > > http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/stockdividendvsstocksplit.asp > > Outfits which do long-term tracking of stock prices adjust past prices for > splits so that prices are comparable over time. They treat stock dividends > exactly the same as splits. (This I learned from my small amount of > experience doing programming inside this world.) > > So why even do a stock dividend? The article at > > http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/stockcashdividend.asp > > tries to put a positive face on stock dividends. But in fact a stock > dividend is a big zero. The corporation distributes no cash. The value of > your share holding is exactly the same after the stock dividend as before. > Sometimes a corporation *should* hold onto its cash and not pay a dividend, > so there's nothing sinister about not paying a cash dividend. A stock > dividend is just a way to tell shareholders "hey, we paid a dividend" even > though the dividend isn't worth a cent. It's a psychological dividend. > > Stock splits also do not change the value of your share holding, but the > justification for splits is to avoid very high prices for single shares. > Whether that's useful in the modern world is debatable (Warren Buffett > famously thinks not, which is why BRKA is trading at $120,000, although he > has relented to the extent of issuing BRKB), but at least it's a reason. > > So the way to handle the stock dividend is to enter it as a stock split on > the securities detail view. I could not find any news about an Apple stock > dividend, so I assume that was just used as an example, and so I can't say > what the split factor is for the OP's stock. However, the split factor will > be one plus the stock dividend proportion, as above. > > Edward > > -- Gordon B. Alley http://www.gordonalley.com http://facebook.com/gordonalley http://twitter.com/gordonalley http://www.linkedin.com/in/gordonalley From moneydanceuser at pigdawg.com Thu Sep 2 12:57:55 2010 From: moneydanceuser at pigdawg.com (Steve Lessard) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 09:57:55 -0700 Subject: [moneydance] How to enter a stock dividend? In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org> References: <20100816225351.6863533d@liberty.rlwhome.lan> <4C7D9213.6040109@mindspring.com> <8486CDB7-FE8C-4E39-A597-AC850F6AE084@gmail.com> <718220.53455.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org> Message-ID: I don't have any issue with your assertion that a dividend is actually a micro-sized stock split, but I will say that anyone who tries to record a dividend as a micro-sized stock split in Moneydance rather than using Moneydance's built-in support for dividend transactions is in for a world of hurt. OK, I guess I do have one issue with your assertion. To the best of my knowledge when a stock splits the investor automatically receives the split shares; there is no cash in lieu of shares option. When a stock pays a dividend the investor has the choice of receiving the dividend as a cash payment or reinvesting the dividend by purchasing additional (often fractional) shares of the same stock. If the investor chooses to receive the dividend as a cash in lieu of shares payment then the dividend can't be considered a micro-sized split. -SteveL p.s. On a trip to the local big-box home improvement store to buy a 1/8th inch doohickey the employee helping me look for it picked up a 3/8ths inch doohickey and suggested it was the same size. He didn't know that 3/8ths is exactly three times the size of 1/8th. A good number of people have a hard enough time with simple fractions like 1/8th and 3/8ths. How would such people ever figure out the correct split ratio for a total dividend of $4.73 on 26.273 shares of a stock that was valued at $60.64 per share when the dividend was issued? On Sep 1, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Edward Reid wrote: At 8/31/2010 10:19 PM -0500, Gordon Alley wrote: > You receive additional shares of stock, not cash. Gordon is exactly correct. Here's a fuller explanation: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stockdividend.asp Legally and financially, a stock dividend is identical to a stock split. For example, a stock dividend of 0.05 shares for each share held is the same as a 21:20 split, and will cause an automatic price drop of 1/21 (about 4.76%). http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/stockdividendvsstocksplit.asp Outfits which do long-term tracking of stock prices adjust past prices for splits so that prices are comparable over time. They treat stock dividends exactly the same as splits. (This I learned from my small amount of experience doing programming inside this world.) So why even do a stock dividend? The article at http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/stockcashdividend.asp tries to put a positive face on stock dividends. But in fact a stock dividend is a big zero. The corporation distributes no cash. The value of your share holding is exactly the same after the stock dividend as before. Sometimes a corporation *should* hold onto its cash and not pay a dividend, so there's nothing sinister about not paying a cash dividend. A stock dividend is just a way to tell shareholders "hey, we paid a dividend" even though the dividend isn't worth a cent. It's a psychological dividend. Stock splits also do not change the value of your share holding, but the justification for splits is to avoid very high prices for single shares. Whether that's useful in the modern world is debatable (Warren Buffett famously thinks not, which is why BRKA is trading at $120,000, although he has relented to the extent of issuing BRKB), but at least it's a reason. So the way to handle the stock dividend is to enter it as a stock split on the securities detail view. I could not find any news about an Apple stock dividend, so I assume that was just used as an example, and so I can't say what the split factor is for the OP's stock. However, the split factor will be one plus the stock dividend proportion, as above. Edward _______________________________________________ moneydance-info mailing list moneydance-info at moneydance.com http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info From opbrmik9 at verizon.net Thu Sep 2 20:53:58 2010 From: opbrmik9 at verizon.net (Mike O'Brien) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 20:53:58 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] How to enter a stock dividend? In-Reply-To: References: <20100816225351.6863533d@liberty.rlwhome.lan> <4C7D9213.6040109@mindspring.com> <8486CDB7-FE8C-4E39-A597-AC850F6AE084@gmail.com> <718220.53455.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org> Message-ID: I believe the original post was referring specifically to a stock dividend and not a cash dividend. On Sep 2, 2010, at 12:57, Steve Lessard wrote: > I don't have any issue with your assertion that a dividend is actually a micro-sized stock split, but I will say that anyone who tries to record a dividend as a micro-sized stock split in Moneydance rather than using Moneydance's built-in support for dividend transactions is in for a world of hurt. > > OK, I guess I do have one issue with your assertion. To the best of my knowledge when a stock splits the investor automatically receives the split shares; there is no cash in lieu of shares option. When a stock pays a dividend the investor has the choice of receiving the dividend as a cash payment or reinvesting the dividend by purchasing additional (often fractional) shares of the same stock. If the investor chooses to receive the dividend as a cash in lieu of shares payment then the dividend can't be considered a micro-sized split. > > -SteveL > > p.s. On a trip to the local big-box home improvement store to buy a 1/8th inch doohickey the employee helping me look for it picked up a 3/8ths inch doohickey and suggested it was the same size. He didn't know that 3/8ths is exactly three times the size of 1/8th. A good number of people have a hard enough time with simple fractions like 1/8th and 3/8ths. How would such people ever figure out the correct split ratio for a total dividend of $4.73 on 26.273 shares of a stock that was valued at $60.64 per share when the dividend was issued? > > > > > > > On Sep 1, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Edward Reid wrote: > > At 8/31/2010 10:19 PM -0500, Gordon Alley wrote: >> You receive additional shares of stock, not cash. > > Gordon is exactly correct. Here's a fuller explanation: > > http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stockdividend.asp > > Legally and financially, a stock dividend is identical to a stock split. For example, a stock dividend of 0.05 shares for each share held is the same as a 21:20 split, and will cause an automatic price drop of 1/21 (about 4.76%). > > http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/stockdividendvsstocksplit.asp > > Outfits which do long-term tracking of stock prices adjust past prices for splits so that prices are comparable over time. They treat stock dividends exactly the same as splits. (This I learned from my small amount of experience doing programming inside this world.) > > So why even do a stock dividend? The article at > > http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/stockcashdividend.asp > > tries to put a positive face on stock dividends. But in fact a stock dividend is a big zero. The corporation distributes no cash. The value of your share holding is exactly the same after the stock dividend as before. Sometimes a corporation *should* hold onto its cash and not pay a dividend, so there's nothing sinister about not paying a cash dividend. A stock dividend is just a way to tell shareholders "hey, we paid a dividend" even though the dividend isn't worth a cent. It's a psychological dividend. > > Stock splits also do not change the value of your share holding, but the justification for splits is to avoid very high prices for single shares. Whether that's useful in the modern world is debatable (Warren Buffett famously thinks not, which is why BRKA is trading at $120,000, although he has relented to the extent of issuing BRKB), but at least it's a reason. > > So the way to handle the stock dividend is to enter it as a stock split on the securities detail view. I could not find any news about an Apple stock dividend, so I assume that was just used as an example, and so I can't say what the split factor is for the OP's stock. However, the split factor will be one plus the stock dividend proportion, as above. > > Edward > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info From edward at paleo.org Fri Sep 3 02:17:40 2010 From: edward at paleo.org (Edward Reid) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 02:17:40 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] How to enter a stock dividend? In-Reply-To: References: <20100816225351.6863533d@liberty.rlwhome.lan> <4C7D9213.6040109@mindspring.com> <8486CDB7-FE8C-4E39-A597-AC850F6AE084@gmail.com> <718220.53455.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20100903015210.0709a3f0@paleo.org> At 9/2/2010 09:57 AM -0700, Steve Lessard wrote: >I don't have any issue with your assertion that a dividend is >actually a micro-sized stock split The fact that you refer to "dividend" rather than "stock dividend" indicates that you may not have followed the links I provided in my previous contribution. What is normally called a "dividend" is a "cash dividend". In this case you may have the option of reinvestment, perhaps automatic. With a "stock dividend", as with a stock split, you automatically receive the additional shares, and you do not (at least normally) have the option of taking cash. The term is doubly confusing because a cash dividend is a dividend paid on holdings of stock, yet a "stock dividend" is a horse of a different color. Many investors, even moderately experienced ones, have never heard of a stock dividend, which is very rare. I would never have heard of it except that I did some programming for a company which maintains related information. A stock dividend isn't even really paid; it's just funny money and does not affect the corporation's cash position. Now if Larry (the OP) really meant a cash dividend reinvested rather than a stock dividend (an easy confusion), then indeed it should be entered as a DivReinvest transaction. Larry hasn't come back to offer additional information. He referred to an Apple Computer stock dividend, and my understanding is that Apple has never distributed a true stock dividend (though it split a few years ago) and hasn't paid a cash dividend in 15 years, so I assume he was using Apple as an example. >To the best of my knowledge when a stock splits the investor >automatically receives the split shares; there is no cash in lieu of >shares option. And there is no cash in lieu of shares option with a STOCK dividend. You are thinking of the far more common (probably at least 1000 times more common) cash dividend. >When a stock pays a dividend But a stock paying a dividend is something quite different from a "stock dividend". A "stock dividend" isn't "paid" any more than a stock split is. And I agree that a cash dividend reinvested is not a stock dividend. >A good number of people have a hard enough time with simple >fractions like 1/8th and 3/8ths. Yeah, innumeracy reigns. Edward From labradley at mindspring.com Fri Sep 3 11:10:08 2010 From: labradley at mindspring.com (Larry Alkoff) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 10:10:08 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] How to enter a stock dividend? In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20100903015210.0709a3f0@paleo.org> References: <20100816225351.6863533d@liberty.rlwhome.lan> <4C7D9213.6040109@mindspring.com> <8486CDB7-FE8C-4E39-A597-AC850F6AE084@gmail.com> <718220.53455.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org> <6.2.5.6.2.20100903015210.0709a3f0@paleo.org> Message-ID: <4C810FD0.3090009@mindspring.com> Edward Reid wrote: > At 9/2/2010 09:57 AM -0700, Steve Lessard wrote: >> I don't have any issue with your assertion that a dividend is actually >> a micro-sized stock split > > The fact that you refer to "dividend" rather than "stock dividend" > indicates that you may not have followed the links I provided in my > previous contribution. What is normally called a "dividend" is a "cash > dividend". In this case you may have the option of reinvestment, perhaps > automatic. With a "stock dividend", as with a stock split, you > automatically receive the additional shares, and you do not (at least > normally) have the option of taking cash. > > The term is doubly confusing because a cash dividend is a dividend paid > on holdings of stock, yet a "stock dividend" is a horse of a different > color. Many investors, even moderately experienced ones, have never > heard of a stock dividend, which is very rare. I would never have heard > of it except that I did some programming for a company which maintains > related information. A stock dividend isn't even really paid; it's just > funny money and does not affect the corporation's cash position. > > Now if Larry (the OP) really meant a cash dividend reinvested rather > than a stock dividend (an easy confusion), then indeed it should be > entered as a DivReinvest transaction. Larry hasn't come back to offer > additional information. He referred to an Apple Computer stock dividend, > and my understanding is that Apple has never distributed a true stock > dividend (though it split a few years ago) and hasn't paid a cash > dividend in 15 years, so I assume he was using Apple as an example. > >> To the best of my knowledge when a stock splits the investor >> automatically receives the split shares; there is no cash in lieu of >> shares option. > > And there is no cash in lieu of shares option with a STOCK dividend. You > are thinking of the far more common (probably at least 1000 times more > common) cash dividend. > >> When a stock pays a dividend > > But a stock paying a dividend is something quite different from a "stock > dividend". A "stock dividend" isn't "paid" any more than a stock split > is. And I agree that a cash dividend reinvested is not a stock dividend. > >> A good number of people have a hard enough time with simple fractions >> like 1/8th and 3/8ths. > > Yeah, innumeracy reigns. > > Edward Hello Edward. I did not respond right away waiting to see the responses to my post. It was gratifying to see the number of responses. Thanks to all. I _really_ did mean a stock dividend not a cash dividend. My March 3, 2005 Merrill Lynch statement states: "3/3/3005 Stock Dividend 32,000. Apple Computer Inc Holding 32000. Pay Date 2/25/2005" Before the Pay Date I had 32,000. now 64,000. After reading the responses to my post I am going to simply treat it as a stock split under the belief that there is no difference between a "stock dividend" and a "stock split". Larry Alkoff From edward at paleo.org Fri Sep 3 22:10:51 2010 From: edward at paleo.org (Edward Reid) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 22:10:51 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] How to enter a stock dividend? In-Reply-To: <4C810FD0.3090009@mindspring.com> References: <20100816225351.6863533d@liberty.rlwhome.lan> <4C7D9213.6040109@mindspring.com> <8486CDB7-FE8C-4E39-A597-AC850F6AE084@gmail.com> <718220.53455.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org> <6.2.5.6.2.20100903015210.0709a3f0@paleo.org> <4C810FD0.3090009@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20100903215557.06ddfc50@paleo.org> At 9/3/2010 10:10 AM -0500, Larry Alkoff wrote: >I _really_ did mean a stock dividend not a cash dividend. >My March 3, 2005 Merrill Lynch statement states: > "3/3/3005 Stock Dividend 32,000. Apple Computer Inc > Holding 32000. > Pay Date 2/25/2005" > >Before the Pay Date I had 32,000. now 64,000. > >After reading the responses to my post I am going to simply treat it >as a stock split under the belief that there is no difference >between a "stock dividend" and a "stock split". Ah-ha. Yes, you definitely should treat that as a stock split ... especially since Apple called it a stock split! http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/feb/11split.html as did most watchers, for example: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=AAPL&a=01&b=25&c=2005&d=01&e=28&f=2005&g=d I have no idea why Merrill Lynch called it a stock dividend. Most likely they simply have only one code in their system for both. Perhaps they thought "dividend" sounded better than "split". (Again, to the existing investor either one means absolutely nothing except some extra bookkeeping and getting used to the sudden change in price.) But clearly ML knew there was no difference. Edward From macdevlists at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 23:42:57 2010 From: macdevlists at gmail.com (Marc Bizer) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 22:42:57 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] How to enter a stock dividend? In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20100903215557.06ddfc50@paleo.org> References: <20100816225351.6863533d@liberty.rlwhome.lan> <4C7D9213.6040109@mindspring.com> <8486CDB7-FE8C-4E39-A597-AC850F6AE084@gmail.com> <718220.53455.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org> <6.2.5.6.2.20100903015210.0709a3f0@paleo.org> <4C810FD0.3090009@mindspring.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100903215557.06ddfc50@paleo.org> Message-ID: <4C6CAC41-B592-4FB5-A392-B12F8F06BE84@gmail.com> Wow -- 64,000 shares of AAPL are worth over $16 million today. On Sep 3, 2010, at 9:10 PM, Edward Reid wrote: > At 9/3/2010 10:10 AM -0500, Larry Alkoff wrote: >> I _really_ did mean a stock dividend not a cash dividend. >> My March 3, 2005 Merrill Lynch statement states: >> "3/3/3005 Stock Dividend 32,000. Apple Computer Inc >> Holding 32000. >> Pay Date 2/25/2005" >> >> Before the Pay Date I had 32,000. now 64,000. >> >> After reading the responses to my post I am going to simply treat it as a stock split under the belief that there is no difference between a "stock dividend" and a "stock split". > > Ah-ha. Yes, you definitely should treat that as a stock split ... especially since Apple called it a stock split! > > http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/feb/11split.html > > as did most watchers, for example: > > http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=AAPL&a=01&b=25&c=2005&d=01&e=28&f=2005&g=d > > I have no idea why Merrill Lynch called it a stock dividend. Most likely they simply have only one code in their system for both. Perhaps they thought "dividend" sounded better than "split". (Again, to the existing investor either one means absolutely nothing except some extra bookkeeping and getting used to the sudden change in price.) But clearly ML knew there was no difference. > > Edward > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info From kmnugent at hotmail.com Sat Sep 4 07:37:39 2010 From: kmnugent at hotmail.com (Kevin Nugent) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 07:37:39 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] How to enter a stock dividend? In-Reply-To: <4C6CAC41-B592-4FB5-A392-B12F8F06BE84@gmail.com> References: <20100816225351.6863533d@liberty.rlwhome.lan>, , , <4C7D9213.6040109@mindspring.com>, <8486CDB7-FE8C-4E39-A597-AC850F6AE084@gmail.com>, , <718220.53455.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, , <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org>, , <6.2.5.6.2.20100903015210.0709a3f0@paleo.org>, <4C810FD0.3090009@mindspring.com>, <6.2.5.6.2.20100903215557.06ddfc50@paleo.org>, <4C6CAC41-B592-4FB5-A392-B12F8F06BE84@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wow indeed! A millionaire that does his own finances and does so with Moneydance! I smell a commercial. > From: macdevlists at gmail.com > Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 22:42:57 -0500 > To: moneydance-info at moneydance.com > Subject: Re: [moneydance] How to enter a stock dividend? > > Wow -- 64,000 shares of AAPL are worth over $16 million today. > > > > On Sep 3, 2010, at 9:10 PM, Edward Reid wrote: > > > At 9/3/2010 10:10 AM -0500, Larry Alkoff wrote: > >> I _really_ did mean a stock dividend not a cash dividend. > >> My March 3, 2005 Merrill Lynch statement states: > >> "3/3/3005 Stock Dividend 32,000. Apple Computer Inc > >> Holding 32000. > >> Pay Date 2/25/2005" > >> > >> Before the Pay Date I had 32,000. now 64,000. > >> > >> After reading the responses to my post I am going to simply treat it as a stock split under the belief that there is no difference between a "stock dividend" and a "stock split". > > > > Ah-ha. Yes, you definitely should treat that as a stock split ... especially since Apple called it a stock split! > > > > http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/feb/11split.html > > > > as did most watchers, for example: > > > > http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=AAPL&a=01&b=25&c=2005&d=01&e=28&f=2005&g=d > > > > I have no idea why Merrill Lynch called it a stock dividend. Most likely they simply have only one code in their system for both. Perhaps they thought "dividend" sounded better than "split". (Again, to the existing investor either one means absolutely nothing except some extra bookkeeping and getting used to the sudden change in price.) But clearly ML knew there was no difference. > > > > Edward > > _______________________________________________ > > moneydance-info mailing list > > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info From gordon at gordonalley.com Sat Sep 4 07:58:14 2010 From: gordon at gordonalley.com (Gordon Alley) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 06:58:14 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] How to enter a stock dividend? In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20100903215557.06ddfc50@paleo.org> References: <20100816225351.6863533d@liberty.rlwhome.lan> <4C7D9213.6040109@mindspring.com> <8486CDB7-FE8C-4E39-A597-AC850F6AE084@gmail.com> <718220.53455.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org> <6.2.5.6.2.20100903015210.0709a3f0@paleo.org> <4C810FD0.3090009@mindspring.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100903215557.06ddfc50@paleo.org> Message-ID: I commonly see splits listed as stock dividends by Scottrade, as well. -Gordon On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Edward Reid wrote: > At 9/3/2010 10:10 AM -0500, Larry Alkoff wrote: > >> I _really_ did mean a stock dividend not a cash dividend. >> My March 3, 2005 Merrill Lynch statement states: >> "3/3/3005 Stock Dividend 32,000. Apple Computer Inc >> Holding 32000. >> Pay Date 2/25/2005" >> >> Before the Pay Date I had 32,000. now 64,000. >> >> After reading the responses to my post I am going to simply treat it as a >> stock split under the belief that there is no difference between a "stock >> dividend" and a "stock split". >> > > Ah-ha. Yes, you definitely should treat that as a stock split ... > especially since Apple called it a stock split! > > http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/feb/11split.html > > as did most watchers, for example: > > http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=AAPL&a=01&b=25&c=2005&d=01&e=28&f=2005&g=d > > I have no idea why Merrill Lynch called it a stock dividend. Most likely > they simply have only one code in their system for both. Perhaps they > thought "dividend" sounded better than "split". (Again, to the existing > investor either one means absolutely nothing except some extra bookkeeping > and getting used to the sudden change in price.) But clearly ML knew there > was no difference. > > Edward > > -- Gordon B. Alley http://www.gordonalley.com http://facebook.com/gordonalley http://twitter.com/gordonalley http://www.linkedin.com/in/gordonalley From labradley at mindspring.com Sun Sep 5 17:32:05 2010 From: labradley at mindspring.com (Larry Alkoff) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 16:32:05 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] How to enter a stock dividend? In-Reply-To: <4C6CAC41-B592-4FB5-A392-B12F8F06BE84@gmail.com> References: <20100816225351.6863533d@liberty.rlwhome.lan> <4C7D9213.6040109@mindspring.com> <8486CDB7-FE8C-4E39-A597-AC850F6AE084@gmail.com> <718220.53455.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100901221903.0b440fa0@paleo.org> <6.2.5.6.2.20100903015210.0709a3f0@paleo.org> <4C810FD0.3090009@mindspring.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100903215557.06ddfc50@paleo.org> <4C6CAC41-B592-4FB5-A392-B12F8F06BE84@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C840C55.1090101@mindspring.com> Marc your comment really made me smile when I realized that I had fat fingered and written 32000 extra shares instead of the real 320.00! So unfortunately my APPL 640.00 current shares is worth about $160. thousand. I would appreciate it if you would send the difference to Merrill to increase my net worth to the "proper amount" . Not that $160K is such a slap in the face. Larry Marc Bizer wrote: > Wow -- 64,000 shares of AAPL are worth over $16 million today. > > > > On Sep 3, 2010, at 9:10 PM, Edward Reid wrote: > >> At 9/3/2010 10:10 AM -0500, Larry Alkoff wrote: >>> I _really_ did mean a stock dividend not a cash dividend. >>> My March 3, 2005 Merrill Lynch statement states: >>> "3/3/3005 Stock Dividend 32,000. Apple Computer Inc >>> Holding 32000. >>> Pay Date 2/25/2005" >>> >>> Before the Pay Date I had 32,000. now 64,000. >>> >>> After reading the responses to my post I am going to simply treat it as a stock split under the belief that there is no difference between a "stock dividend" and a "stock split". >> Ah-ha. Yes, you definitely should treat that as a stock split ... especially since Apple called it a stock split! >> >> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/feb/11split.html >> >> as did most watchers, for example: >> >> http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=AAPL&a=01&b=25&c=2005&d=01&e=28&f=2005&g=d >> >> I have no idea why Merrill Lynch called it a stock dividend. Most likely they simply have only one code in their system for both. Perhaps they thought "dividend" sounded better than "split". (Again, to the existing investor either one means absolutely nothing except some extra bookkeeping and getting used to the sudden change in price.) But clearly ML knew there was no difference. >> >> Edward >> _______________________________________________ >> moneydance-info mailing list >> moneydance-info at moneydance.com >> http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > From fquist at usa.net Wed Sep 8 13:20:16 2010 From: fquist at usa.net (Fred Quist) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 11:20:16 -0600 Subject: [moneydance] Forcing Merge Message-ID: <4C87C5D0.7090808@usa.net> Occasionally, a financial institution will use a description that doesn't match my description well enough to see that the two transactions should be merged. Is there a way to select the two transactions and force a merge? Yes, I could simply delete one of the transactions but in some cases, I have two or three splits in the transaction I've entered so, if I delete that transaction, I have to re-enter the splits in the downloaded transaction. If I delete the downloaded transaction, it reappears the next time I download that account. Thanks, Fred From kmnugent at hotmail.com Sat Sep 11 11:50:13 2010 From: kmnugent at hotmail.com (Kevin Nugent) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 11:50:13 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] Forcing Merge In-Reply-To: <4C87C5D0.7090808@usa.net> References: <4C87C5D0.7090808@usa.net> Message-ID: Hi Fred, This is a really good question / suggestion. Perhaps you should post it at the Moneydance Help Forum. It may get more attention there. http://help.infinitekind.com/discussions -Kevin N. > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 11:20:16 -0600 > From: fquist at usa.net > To: moneydance-info at moneydance.com > Subject: [moneydance] Forcing Merge > > Occasionally, a financial institution will use a description that > doesn't match my description well enough to see that the two > transactions should be merged. Is there a way to select the two > transactions and force a merge? Yes, I could simply delete one of the > transactions but in some cases, I have two or three splits in the > transaction I've entered so, if I delete that transaction, I have to > re-enter the splits in the downloaded transaction. If I delete the > downloaded transaction, it reappears the next time I download that account. > > Thanks, > Fred > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info From rw at rlworkman.net Tue Sep 14 10:32:22 2010 From: rw at rlworkman.net (Robby Workman) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 09:32:22 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] Data files have ownership/permissions reset on save In-Reply-To: <20100822122944.4a87b0a6@liberty.rlwhome.lan> References: <20100816225351.6863533d@liberty.rlwhome.lan> <20100822122944.4a87b0a6@liberty.rlwhome.lan> Message-ID: <20100914093222.3616e4a6@liberty.rlwhome.lan> On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 12:29:44 -0500 Robby Workman wrote: > On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:13:06 -0400 > Sean Reilly wrote: > > > Hi Robby, > > > > On most platforms, Moneydance writes the data out to a temporary > > file in the same folder and then renames/moves the file over the > > original file after a successful save. This ensures that any > > problems that cause a crash while MD is writing the data file don't > > result in lost data. It also means that the data file is > > considered a new file after every save, so any specific permissions > > will be lost. > > > > On Linux and Mac (or any other unix-y file system), the permissions > > of new files are derived from the permissions of the folder that > > contains them. You should be able to test this by changing the > > permissions of the md-data folder and then saving your MD file: > > > > chmod 700 md-data > > > Nope, that directory is (and has always been) mode 0700: > > $ ls -ld md-data/ > drwx------ 3 rworkman rworkman 4096 2010-08-21 20:32 md-data// > > > > It may also be possible to use the umode command (or environment > > variable... I don't remember which) in the moneydance startup > > script, but I don't have the documentation for that handy. > > > Probably you're thinking of umask(2) - with a umask of 0022 > (which is pretty much a sane default for any system), exactly > what I described in the original mail will take place if a > new file is created. See http://linux.die.net/man/2/umask > > All that said, I can work around some of this by launching > Moneydance from a customized environment with a different > umask value *and* make the parent directory setgid; however, > I honestly don't think that should be necessary. It seems > to me that existing file permissions would be preserved by > doing something like this (I'll do this with shell commands > since that's the easiest way for me to explain): > > 1. Moneydance opens a secure temp file > $ TEMPFILE=$(mktemp) > > 2. Moneydance concatenates the existing config file contents > into the tempfile: > $ cat account.md > $TEMPFILE > > 3. Moneydance copies the existing config file to a backup > file, preserving ownership and mode: > $ cp -a account.md account-$DATE.md > > 4. Moneydance does whatever it's going to do, user mods and > such, to the data file (actually $TEMPFILE), and after > verifying integrity through whatever means that occurs: > $ cat $TEMPFILE > account.md > $ rm -f $TEMPFILE > > Result: account.md has the same ownership and mode as it > did before Moneydance was opened. > > Major problem: I don't know how to do all of that in java :-) Okay, I talked with a java friend about this (thanks, Vincent Batts!) who then talked to a friend of his (thanks, Archie Cobbs!), and this is what I've gotten: Correct, there aren't standard ways to fiddle with UNIX permissions in Java, because the concept is UNIX specific and Java tries to be more general. There are libraries that will do it, however. Also, in Java you could fix this portably by: Copying old file to a backup file Opening old file for truncate + write Write new data into old file Have a way to detect a partially written file (e.g., trailing checksum) When opening a data file, check the checksum and if broken use the backup file instead -Archie I hope this is useful, even though it looks pretty generic :-) -RW From macdevlists at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 16:28:17 2010 From: macdevlists at gmail.com (Marc Bizer) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:28:17 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7B89DA40-BD38-4D13-95B8-BDB27AE2B82C@gmail.com> Hi everyone, Build 750 (a beta) dates from May (and 752, the latest, dates from July)? Is Moneydance development still ongoing? --Marc From sreilly at seanreilly.com Wed Sep 15 16:38:14 2010 From: sreilly at seanreilly.com (Sean Reilly) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 16:38:14 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: <7B89DA40-BD38-4D13-95B8-BDB27AE2B82C@gmail.com> References: <7B89DA40-BD38-4D13-95B8-BDB27AE2B82C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5B07539C-3E1B-4A32-A47F-590C71903DB8@seanreilly.com> Yes, we haven't slowed down at all. In fact, our development is going faster than ever. We haven't been doing as many public preview builds, but we're constantly working. Also, Moneydance 2010r3 (build 751) was a non-beta release. Thanks, Sean On Sep 15, 2010, at 4:28 PM, Marc Bizer wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Build 750 (a beta) dates from May (and 752, the latest, dates from July)? Is Moneydance development still ongoing? > > --Marc > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info From macdevlists at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 17:17:01 2010 From: macdevlists at gmail.com (Marc Bizer) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 16:17:01 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: <5B07539C-3E1B-4A32-A47F-590C71903DB8@seanreilly.com> References: <7B89DA40-BD38-4D13-95B8-BDB27AE2B82C@gmail.com> <5B07539C-3E1B-4A32-A47F-590C71903DB8@seanreilly.com> Message-ID: <0ED5DCB7-ADDC-4027-AADE-4672BE850BEA@gmail.com> On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Sean Reilly wrote: > Also, Moneydance 2010r3 (build 751) was a non-beta release. That's weird. When I download the file http://moneydance.com/download/2010/MacOS_X/Moneydance.zip, "get info" says "2010 beta" under version, and the create/mod date is 5/25/10 (almost 4 months ago). --Marc From moneydanceuser at pigdawg.com Fri Sep 17 04:21:40 2010 From: moneydanceuser at pigdawg.com (Steve Lessard) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 01:21:40 -0700 Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: <0ED5DCB7-ADDC-4027-AADE-4672BE850BEA@gmail.com> References: <7B89DA40-BD38-4D13-95B8-BDB27AE2B82C@gmail.com> <5B07539C-3E1B-4A32-A47F-590C71903DB8@seanreilly.com> <0ED5DCB7-ADDC-4027-AADE-4672BE850BEA@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sean and team have spoiled us. I wish more software companies would put out updated builds as frequently as the Moneydance team does. Keep up the great work! -SteveL On Sep 15, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Marc Bizer wrote: On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Sean Reilly wrote: > Also, Moneydance 2010r3 (build 751) was a non-beta release. That's weird. When I download the file http://moneydance.com/download/2010/MacOS_X/Moneydance.zip, "get info" says "2010 beta" under version, and the create/mod date is 5/25/10 (almost 4 months ago). --Marc _______________________________________________ moneydance-info mailing list moneydance-info at moneydance.com http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info From macdevlists at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 10:20:21 2010 From: macdevlists at gmail.com (Marc Bizer) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 09:20:21 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: References: <7B89DA40-BD38-4D13-95B8-BDB27AE2B82C@gmail.com> <5B07539C-3E1B-4A32-A47F-590C71903DB8@seanreilly.com> <0ED5DCB7-ADDC-4027-AADE-4672BE850BEA@gmail.com> Message-ID: Frequently? As I wrote, there hasn't been one in 4 months! --Marc On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:21 AM, Steve Lessard wrote: > Sean and team have spoiled us. I wish more software companies would put out updated builds as frequently as the Moneydance team does. > > Keep up the great work! > > -SteveL > > > > > On Sep 15, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Marc Bizer wrote: > > On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Sean Reilly wrote: > >> Also, Moneydance 2010r3 (build 751) was a non-beta release. > > That's weird. When I download the file http://moneydance.com/download/2010/MacOS_X/Moneydance.zip, "get info" says "2010 beta" under version, and the create/mod date is 5/25/10 (almost 4 months ago). > > --Marc > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info From chiieddy at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 11:51:40 2010 From: chiieddy at gmail.com (Elana Houde) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:51:40 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: References: <7B89DA40-BD38-4D13-95B8-BDB27AE2B82C@gmail.com> <5B07539C-3E1B-4A32-A47F-590C71903DB8@seanreilly.com> <0ED5DCB7-ADDC-4027-AADE-4672BE850BEA@gmail.com> Message-ID: Some companies release software once a year. Some not even that often. More than one time a year is pretty darn frequent. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Marc Bizer wrote: > Frequently? As I wrote, there hasn't been one in 4 months! > > --Marc > > > On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:21 AM, Steve Lessard wrote: > > > Sean and team have spoiled us. I wish more software companies would put > out updated builds as frequently as the Moneydance team does. > > > > Keep up the great work! > > > > -SteveL > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 15, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Marc Bizer wrote: > > > > On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Sean Reilly wrote: > > > >> Also, Moneydance 2010r3 (build 751) was a non-beta release. > > > > That's weird. When I download the file > http://moneydance.com/download/2010/MacOS_X/Moneydance.zip, "get info" > says "2010 beta" under version, and the create/mod date is 5/25/10 (almost 4 > months ago). > > > > --Marc > > _______________________________________________ > > moneydance-info mailing list > > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > > > > _______________________________________________ > > moneydance-info mailing list > > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > -- Elana Houde From chuckf410 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 17 12:22:33 2010 From: chuckf410 at yahoo.com (Chuck) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 09:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: References: <7B89DA40-BD38-4D13-95B8-BDB27AE2B82C@gmail.com> <5B07539C-3E1B-4A32-A47F-590C71903DB8@seanreilly.com> <0ED5DCB7-ADDC-4027-AADE-4672BE850BEA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <660965.28251.qm@web113515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Its been four months already? That's impressive. I guess that I've not noticed its been so long because its been working just fine for me. Thanks for the great work Sean and Co.! You've found the balance in providing builds when needed to make improvements and then let the users have stability when new builds are not warranted. Chuck "It is sometimes a mistake to climb; it is always a mistake never even to make the attempt" ----- Original Message ---- > From: Marc Bizer > To: General discussion related to Moneydance > Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 10:20:21 AM > Subject: Re: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? > > Frequently? As I wrote, there hasn't been one in 4 months! > > --Marc > > > On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:21 AM, Steve Lessard wrote: > > > Sean and team have spoiled us. I wish more software companies would put out >updated builds as frequently as the Moneydance team does. > > > > Keep up the great work! > > > > -SteveL > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 15, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Marc Bizer wrote: > > > > On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Sean Reilly wrote: > > > >> Also, Moneydance 2010r3 (build 751) was a non-beta release. > > > > That's weird. When I download the file >http://moneydance.com/download/2010/MacOS_X/Moneydance.zip, "get info" says >"2010 beta" under version, and the create/mod date is 5/25/10 (almost 4 months >ago). > > > > --Marc > > _______________________________________________ > > moneydance-info mailing list > > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > > > > _______________________________________________ > > moneydance-info mailing list > > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > From wayne at etaq.com Fri Sep 17 16:47:49 2010 From: wayne at etaq.com (Wayne Barnes) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:47:49 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] please pause for US Bank Message-ID: Dear Sean, I have a workaround for my US Bank problem, which I have complained about before. My payments don't go through with out an error message, but the workaround is: I just try them again, about 5 times usually, they eventually go through just fine. Only rarely do the payments go through with only 1 or 2 tries. My guess is that it is just a timing problem, and Moneydance is just too impatient, if US Bank's server does not respond within 2/10 of a second, or something. Can you (or at least I, with an option) allow more time for the bank computer to properly acknowledge my payment command? -- - - Wayne M Barnes From stanftw at yahoo.com Fri Sep 17 19:00:08 2010 From: stanftw at yahoo.com (Stan) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 18:00:08 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: <660965.28251.qm@web113515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20109171808.881888@Thing3> I'm with you, Chuck. I don't see the point to releasing new builds just to show it's still being developed, in some sort of dog-and-pony show. I have to say, though, that I'm confused about something to do with upgrading/purchasing. This post reminded me that I had been wanting to try the new version, so I finally installed it. First of all, it says I can add 0 transactions manually before being required to purchase it. I assume that's because I already have, I can't even guess how many, transactions in my file. But it's not much of a trial if I can't add any transactions, is it?? Secondly, http://moneydance.com/purchase says it's $39.99, or I can upgrade my old version for $19.99. I passed the serial key test, and was just about to supply a credit card number when I noticed, HEY! the order form says it's going to be $24.99 for the upgrade ($49.99 for a new purchase). What gives? I admit it's something of a fine line, but at $20, I'm not batting an eye, at $25, maybe I'll wait until next month's budget is done. But of course, it's the principle, telling me it's one price, then trying to charge me more, that really got me... And, of course, I apparently can't use it at all until I fork out the cash, even though I just installed it today. Not crazy about this arrangement at all! And while I'm griping, did we ever find out how to make old, defunct accounts disappear from the sidebar? I have a LOT of history in Moneydance, and do not need quick access to the Bank of America checking account that I closed in 1995 (I'm not kidding). I was just getting to like the side bar, but clutter like that renders it just about useless, for me... Stan On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 09:22:33 -0700 (PDT), Chuck wrote: > Its been four months already? That's impressive. > > I guess that I've not noticed its been so long because its been > working just fine for me. > > Thanks for the great work Sean and Co.! You've found the balance in > providing builds when needed to make improvements and then let the > users have stability when new builds are not warranted. > > Chuck > > > "It is sometimes a mistake to climb; > it is always a mistake never even to make the attempt" > > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Marc Bizer >> To: General discussion related to Moneydance > info at moneydance.com> Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 10:20:21 AM >> Subject: Re: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? >> >> Frequently? As I wrote, there hasn't been one in 4 months! >> >> --Marc >> >> >> On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:21 AM, Steve Lessard wrote: >> >>> Sean and team have spoiled us. I wish more software companies >>> would put out >>> >> updated builds as frequently as the Moneydance team does. >> >>> Keep up the great work! >>> >>> -SteveL >>> >>> >>> On Sep 15, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Marc Bizer wrote: >>> >>> On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Sean Reilly wrote: >>> >>>> Also, Moneydance 2010r3 (build 751) was a non-beta release. >>>> >>> That's weird. When I download the file >> http://moneydance.com/download/2010/MacOS_X/Moneydance.zip, "get >> info" says "2010 beta" under version, and the create/mod date is >> 5/25/10 (almost 4 months ago). >> >>> >>> --Marc >>> _______________________________________________ >>> moneydance-info mailing list >>> moneydance-info at moneydance.com >>> http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> moneydance-info mailing list >>> moneydance-info at moneydance.com >>> http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> moneydance-info mailing list >> moneydance-info at moneydance.com >> http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > > > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info From kmnugent at hotmail.com Fri Sep 17 19:21:12 2010 From: kmnugent at hotmail.com (Kevin Nugent) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 19:21:12 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: <20109171808.881888@Thing3> References: <660965.28251.qm@web113515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>, <20109171808.881888@Thing3> Message-ID: Hi Stan, To remove items from the sidebar, click the big (-) minus sign at the bottom of the sidebar. This action does not delete the item, it only removes it from the sidebar. Downloading the trial version should allow you to manually input 100 txns. HTH -Kevin N. > From: stanftw at yahoo.com > To: moneydance-info at moneydance.com > Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 18:00:08 -0500 > Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? > > I'm with you, Chuck. I don't see the point to releasing new builds just to > show it's still being developed, in some sort of dog-and-pony show. > > I have to say, though, that I'm confused about something to do with > upgrading/purchasing. This post reminded me that I had been wanting to try > the new version, so I finally installed it. > > First of all, it says I can add 0 transactions manually before being > required to purchase it. I assume that's because I already have, I can't > even guess how many, transactions in my file. But it's not much of a trial > if I can't add any transactions, is it?? > > Secondly, http://moneydance.com/purchase says it's $39.99, or I can upgrade > my old version for $19.99. I passed the serial key test, and was just about > to supply a credit card number when I noticed, HEY! the order form says it's > going to be $24.99 for the upgrade ($49.99 for a new purchase). > > What gives? I admit it's something of a fine line, but at $20, I'm not > batting an eye, at $25, maybe I'll wait until next month's budget is done. > But of course, it's the principle, telling me it's one price, then trying to > charge me more, that really got me... > > And, of course, I apparently can't use it at all until I fork out the cash, > even though I just installed it today. Not crazy about this arrangement at > all! > > And while I'm griping, did we ever find out how to make old, defunct > accounts disappear from the sidebar? I have a LOT of history in Moneydance, > and do not need quick access to the Bank of America checking account that I > closed in 1995 (I'm not kidding). I was just getting to like the side bar, > but clutter like that renders it just about useless, for me... > > Stan > > > On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 09:22:33 -0700 (PDT), Chuck wrote: > > > Its been four months already? That's impressive. > > > > I guess that I've not noticed its been so long because its been > > working just fine for me. > > > > Thanks for the great work Sean and Co.! You've found the balance in > > providing builds when needed to make improvements and then let the > > users have stability when new builds are not warranted. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > "It is sometimes a mistake to climb; > > it is always a mistake never even to make the attempt" > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > >> From: Marc Bizer > >> To: General discussion related to Moneydance >> info at moneydance.com> Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 10:20:21 AM > >> Subject: Re: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? > >> > >> Frequently? As I wrote, there hasn't been one in 4 months! > >> > >> --Marc > >> > >> > >> On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:21 AM, Steve Lessard wrote: > >> > >>> Sean and team have spoiled us. I wish more software companies > >>> would put out > >>> > >> updated builds as frequently as the Moneydance team does. > >> > >>> Keep up the great work! > >>> > >>> -SteveL > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sep 15, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Marc Bizer wrote: > >>> > >>> On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Sean Reilly wrote: > >>> > >>>> Also, Moneydance 2010r3 (build 751) was a non-beta release. > >>>> > >>> That's weird. When I download the file > >> http://moneydance.com/download/2010/MacOS_X/Moneydance.zip, "get > >> info" says "2010 beta" under version, and the create/mod date is > >> 5/25/10 (almost 4 months ago). > >> > >>> > >>> --Marc > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> moneydance-info mailing list > >>> moneydance-info at moneydance.com > >>> http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> moneydance-info mailing list > >>> moneydance-info at moneydance.com > >>> http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> moneydance-info mailing list > >> moneydance-info at moneydance.com > >> http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > moneydance-info mailing list > > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info From gordon at gordonalley.com Fri Sep 17 19:22:51 2010 From: gordon at gordonalley.com (Gordon Alley) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 18:22:51 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: <20109171808.881888@Thing3> References: <660965.28251.qm@web113515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20109171808.881888@Thing3> Message-ID: As to how to remove accounts from the sidebar: just select the account and click on the big minus sign at the bottom of the sidebar. -Gordon On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Stan wrote: > I'm with you, Chuck. I don't see the point to releasing new builds just to > show it's still being developed, in some sort of dog-and-pony show. > > I have to say, though, that I'm confused about something to do with > upgrading/purchasing. This post reminded me that I had been wanting to try > the new version, so I finally installed it. > > First of all, it says I can add 0 transactions manually before being > required to purchase it. I assume that's because I already have, I can't > even guess how many, transactions in my file. But it's not much of a trial > if I can't add any transactions, is it?? > > Secondly, http://moneydance.com/purchase says it's $39.99, or I can > upgrade > my old version for $19.99. I passed the serial key test, and was just > about > to supply a credit card number when I noticed, HEY! the order form says > it's > going to be $24.99 for the upgrade ($49.99 for a new purchase). > > What gives? I admit it's something of a fine line, but at $20, I'm not > batting an eye, at $25, maybe I'll wait until next month's budget is done. > But of course, it's the principle, telling me it's one price, then trying > to > charge me more, that really got me... > > And, of course, I apparently can't use it at all until I fork out the cash, > even though I just installed it today. Not crazy about this arrangement at > all! > > And while I'm griping, did we ever find out how to make old, defunct > accounts disappear from the sidebar? I have a LOT of history in > Moneydance, > and do not need quick access to the Bank of America checking account that I > closed in 1995 (I'm not kidding). I was just getting to like the side bar, > but clutter like that renders it just about useless, for me... > > Stan > > > On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 09:22:33 -0700 (PDT), Chuck > wrote: > > > Its been four months already? That's impressive. > > > > I guess that I've not noticed its been so long because its been > > working just fine for me. > > > > Thanks for the great work Sean and Co.! You've found the balance in > > providing builds when needed to make improvements and then let the > > users have stability when new builds are not warranted. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > "It is sometimes a mistake to climb; > > it is always a mistake never even to make the attempt" > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > >> From: Marc Bizer > >> To: General discussion related to Moneydance >> info at moneydance.com> Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 10:20:21 AM > >> Subject: Re: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? > >> > >> Frequently? As I wrote, there hasn't been one in 4 months! > >> > >> --Marc > >> > >> > >> On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:21 AM, Steve Lessard wrote: > >> > >>> Sean and team have spoiled us. I wish more software companies > >>> would put out > >>> > >> updated builds as frequently as the Moneydance team does. > >> > >>> Keep up the great work! > >>> > >>> -SteveL > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sep 15, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Marc Bizer wrote: > >>> > >>> On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Sean Reilly wrote: > >>> > >>>> Also, Moneydance 2010r3 (build 751) was a non-beta release. > >>>> > >>> That's weird. When I download the file > >> http://moneydance.com/download/2010/MacOS_X/Moneydance.zip, "get > >> info" says "2010 beta" under version, and the create/mod date is > >> 5/25/10 (almost 4 months ago). > >> > >>> > >>> --Marc > -- Gordon B. Alley http://www.gordonalley.com http://facebook.com/gordonalley http://twitter.com/gordonalley http://www.linkedin.com/in/gordonalley From stanftw at yahoo.com Fri Sep 17 21:15:34 2010 From: stanftw at yahoo.com (Stan) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:15:34 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2010917201534.833005@Thing3> But beyond that, one of the things that drove me away from the Q-word (and irritates me about lots of other software) was that, every year, they put out a new version because that's their marketing model. Doesn't matter whether there was a good reason to do so or not, they'd add a bunch of bloat in useless features I didn't want and would never use, all so they could put out something "new." Every several years, I'd play along, but by no means did I see any reason to pay for an upgrade every year, and I guess I wasn't alone in that, so they squeezed us any way they could, even through coercion of financial institutions. Which reminds me, I paid $29.99 for Moneydance on 7/22/2005, and not a penny since then, through countless fixes, patches, minor upgrades, and other improvements. I've gotta admit, that's pretty sweet... Stan On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 01:21:40 -0700, Steve Lessard wrote: > Sean and team have spoiled us. I wish more software companies would > put out updated builds as frequently as the Moneydance team does. > > Keep up the great work! > > -SteveL > > > On Sep 15, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Marc Bizer wrote: > > On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Sean Reilly wrote: > >> Also, Moneydance 2010r3 (build 751) was a non-beta release. >> > That's weird. When I download the file > http://moneydance.com/download/2010/MacOS_X/Moneydance.zip, "get > info" says "2010 beta" under version, and the create/mod date is > 5/25/10 (almost 4 months ago). > > --Marc > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info From stanftw at yahoo.com Fri Sep 17 21:17:26 2010 From: stanftw at yahoo.com (Stan) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:17:26 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2010917201726.218495@Thing3> On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 19:21:12 -0400, Kevin Nugent wrote: > > Hi Stan, > To remove items from the sidebar, click the big (-) minus sign at > the bottom of the sidebar. This action does not delete the item, > it only removes it from the sidebar. Nice. I'm now a sidebar convert. > Downloading the trial version should allow you to manually input > 100 txns. HTH -Kevin N. I think it should, too, but it doesn't. Evidently that's because I already have WAY more than 100 transactions in my data file. Stan From stanftw at yahoo.com Sun Sep 19 17:02:36 2010 From: stanftw at yahoo.com (Stan) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:02:36 -0500 Subject: [moneydance] whither Moneydance? In-Reply-To: <20107421528.569862@Thing3> Message-ID: <201091916236.516244@Thing3> Just to follow up, I'm not sure what prompted me to approach this issue with a post to a public forum instead of a private email to Sean, but it has been resolved to my satisfaction. Via a private email to Sean, I might add. :) Thanks for all you do for us hardcore users, Sean! Stan > On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 18:00:08 -0500, Stan wrote: > > [snip] >> Secondly, http://moneydance.com/purchase says it's $39.99, or I can >> upgrade my old version for $19.99. I passed the serial key test, >> and was just about to supply a credit card number when I noticed, >> HEY! the order form says it's going to be $24.99 for the upgrade >> ($49.99 for a new purchase). >> >> What gives? I admit it's something of a fine line, but at $20, I'm >> not batting an eye, at $25, maybe I'll wait until next month's >> budget is done. But of course, it's the principle, telling me it's >> one price, then trying to charge me more, that really got me... >> >> And, of course, I apparently can't use it at all until I fork out >> the cash, even though I just installed it today. Not crazy about >> this arrangement at all! > [snip] From jbe9 at cornell.edu Thu Sep 23 18:16:12 2010 From: jbe9 at cornell.edu (John B. Egger) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:16:12 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] Upgrade price? Message-ID: <4C9BD1AC.1020802@cornell.edu> From 2008r4 (640) to 2010r3 (751): $49.95...really? Same as the straight purchase price, or did I miss an option somewhere? My 2008 key isn't even acknowledged as such; it just produces a "bad key" message. From jrf at alumni.cmu.edu Thu Sep 23 18:57:16 2010 From: jrf at alumni.cmu.edu (Joe Finnegan) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:57:16 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] Echo: please pause for SunTrust Bank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wayne describes the same behavior I have with SunTrust Bank (Virginia). Because it's intermittent, and wildly inconsistent, I understand it's tough to troubleshoot. Incredibly annoying, but not nearly a show-stopper. Joe Finnegan On 9/17/10 at 3:47 PM -0500, Wayne Barnes wrote: >Dear Sean, > > I have a workaround for my US Bank problem, which I have >complained about before. > > My payments don't go through with out an error message, but the >workaround is: I just try them again, about 5 times usually, they >eventually go through just fine. Only rarely do the payments go >through with only 1 or 2 tries. > > My guess is that it is just a timing problem, and Moneydance is >just too impatient, if US Bank's server does not respond within 2/10 >of a second, or something. Can you (or at least I, with an option) >allow more time for the bank computer to properly acknowledge my >payment command? > >-- >- - Wayne M Barnes > From kmnugent at hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 19:10:45 2010 From: kmnugent at hotmail.com (Kevin Nugent) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 19:10:45 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] Upgrade price? In-Reply-To: <4C9BD1AC.1020802@cornell.edu> References: <4C9BD1AC.1020802@cornell.edu> Message-ID: Hi, Copied from http://moneydance.com/purchase If you purchased Moneydance moneydance prior to March 28th, 2008 you are entitled to a discounted upgrade price of $24.99. On the same page is a place to enter your email address to retreive a lost license key which might help your 'bad key' issue. HTH -Kevin N. > Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:16:12 -0400 > From: jbe9 at cornell.edu > To: moneydance-info at moneydance.com > Subject: [moneydance] Upgrade price? > > > From 2008r4 (640) to 2010r3 (751): $49.95...really? Same as the > straight purchase price, or did I miss an option somewhere? My 2008 key > isn't even acknowledged as such; it just produces a "bad key" message. > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info From jbe9 at cornell.edu Thu Sep 23 20:27:59 2010 From: jbe9 at cornell.edu (John B. Egger) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 20:27:59 -0400 Subject: [moneydance] Upgrade price? In-Reply-To: References: <4C9BD1AC.1020802@cornell.edu> Message-ID: <4C9BF08F.2070709@cornell.edu> On 09/23/2010 07:10 PM, Kevin Nugent wrote: > Hi, > Copied from http://moneydance.com/purchase > If you purchased Moneydance moneydance prior to March 28th, 2008 you > are entitled to a discounted upgrade price of $24.99. > On the same page is a place to enter your email address to retreive a > lost license key which might help your 'bad key' issue. > HTH -Kevin N. > > >> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:16:12 -0400 >> From: jbe9 at cornell.edu >> To: moneydance-info at moneydance.com >> Subject: [moneydance] Upgrade price? >> >> >> From 2008r4 (640) to 2010r3 (751): $49.95...really? Same as the >> straight purchase price, or did I miss an option somewhere? My 2008 key >> isn't even acknowledged as such; it just produces a "bad key" message. >> _______________________________________________ >> moneydance-info mailing list >> moneydance-info at moneydance.com >> http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info >> > > _______________________________________________ > moneydance-info mailing list > moneydance-info at moneydance.com > http://moneydance.com/mailman/listinfo/moneydance-info > > Thanks, Kevin... don't know how I missed that. I'm now upgraded to 751... and only twenty-five bucks poorer.